However, polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the public water supply. Most states have stricter . The second option would be to fix the issue related to the polybutylene pipes yourself and then put your home on the market. How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? >>. even obtaining homeowners insurance even if the pipes don't cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes. If you are purchasing a home, you likely have some homeowner insurance covering the houses cost of damages. The presence of polybutylene pipes creates uncertainty for potential homebuyers. Hence, to answer the question, yes, a seller is obliged to disclose the presence of polybutylene pipes. You will need to excavate them for examination. In some states, the seller must disclose polybutylene pipes as a material defect in the residential property disclosure form. If you think your home may have polybutylene pipes, have a plumber and/or contractor come out to inspect your home. I've got it! Polybutylene pipes cause uncertainty for the buyers as these pipes problems are not immediately visible. We completed all our inspections (structural, septic, water, pest, home), the bank ordered the appraisal, the Realtor hired the attorney. When polybutylene leaks occur in US plumbing systems, the leaks are often at or near connectors. Polybutylene is also no longer an approved plumbing material for potable water systems in building codes across the US. Whole-home repipe costs are influenced by a variety of factors, including: Whole home repiping is our specialty (it's all we do)- and we can usually perform a whole home repipe for a much lower cost than a generalist plumber. What they do is they buy the property, which they can upgrade, make the required repairs, and then sell the homes making good profits on their investments. You could easily run afoul of these laws if you arent forthcoming about polybutylene pipes in your home. Also in 1989, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing. In order to know for certain if you have polybutylene pipes in your home, and their condition, you will need to hire a professional plumber. Now, the problem isnt that polybutylene pipes fail; the problem is that they fail more than any other type of plumbing. Note: If a home is listed on the MLS (the local Multiple. What about polybutylene ("poly") pipes - are sellers/agents required to disclose? As we mentioned earlier, banning polybutylene pipes causes them to become barriers to selling or buying a home. Cross-Linked Polyethylene (PEX) is basically a plastic material used to make pipes for water systems in our houses. We also havespecial financing options available. Just because a house has polybutylene pipes in place that have not yet failed doesnt mean everythings good and fine. Can I Sell My House with a Property, State or IRS Tax Lien? What is the difference between water service pipe and water supply pipe? $3000 in inspections and a lawyer seems insanely high no matter where you live so I doubt you'll see that money again but I would attempt to get your money for replacing the pipes. foreclosure When I was looking for homeowners insurance one company asked what kind of pipes the house had. Poly pipe failures can also be catastrophic, as opposed to a slow leak. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? Most insurance companies will outright decline to insure a home with PB-pipe because of its history of failure. As mentioned above, the main problem with polybutylene pipes is that they are too fragile in the long run and become very weak from the inside and subsequently crack. Look for reviews online on sites like Facebook, Google, and Yelp. Are plastic pipes (PVC, CPVC, and PEX) safe for drinking water? What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the wall in my house? Repiping the interior of your home will cost between $1,500 to $8,000 for Pex or CPVC pipes, and from $2,500 to $15,000 for copper. This means that a buyer would need to have the financial ability to buy the home and then make repairs. However, polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the public water supply. Now that you know who your as-is buyers are, where do you find them? Lets start by looking at 2 available choices for preparing, marketing, and selling a home with polybutylene pipes. It would be best to select the right contractor for the job. Our work is 100% guaranteed for life, and we are fully licensed in the states where we operate. However, if you know you have poly plumbing - you will most likely need to disclose that fact. Some forums can only be seen by registered members. What can you do if you buy a home and later discover something was omitted from seller disclosure? investing Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? All Rights Reserved. If you find a vendor who was previously in the house and alerted them to the fact that the pipes needed to be replaced you have proof. Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? Click here for more information. Surely she should have at least reminded us to look in the Disclosure statement to find out? Eventually, this could make them liable for lawsuits from their buyer. If the seller or the home inspector fail to mention that your home has polybutylene plastic water supply lines and crimped fittings you may be able to collect money as part of a class action lawsuit. Compared to copper, it was inexpensive, easy to install, and had several other advantages like being resistant to damage from freezing. Contact us by phone or email with any questions, or to schedule a no-obligation in-home (or remote) consultation with one of our Estimators. Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? In our experience - once you have one leak, you are likely facing a systemic issue, and other leaks will follow. Replacing your exterior water supply connections can cost from $600 to $2,400. And how do you make sure that youre dealing with the right investor and the best offer? The realtor actually removed all the copper piping to scrap for meth money, and replaced it all with polybutylene piping. Also, construction methods and materials vary in different parts of the country and it is possible that important issues related to your area may not be covered here. Most of these forms require the seller to disclose information related to polybutylene pipes. Code requirements cited may have been changed in a newer code edition, or may not yet be adopted in your area. PB-1 is a high molecular weight, linear, isotactic, and semi-crystalline polymer. Our unique online platform was created to put them together with property sellers just like you. Joined: Jun 2012. In short, you don't have to disclose a death in a house in Texas unrelated to the condition of the property, the HIV status of any occupants of the property, and won't be held responsible for any conditions that you are truly unaware of. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. Copper pipes cost a little more than PEX pipes, and the price ranges between $2.50 and $3.50 per linear foot. We will get it done for you. Here are some facts you should note: (1) a broker was sued in Virginia for not disclosing the fact that a home had polybutylene plumbing, (2) a property management firm is being sued for non-disclosure in the condo resale certificates, and (3) an inspection company was sued for failing to disclose poly in a hotel property. The most significant historical litigation was the Cox v. Shell Oil class-action lawsuit, culminating in close to a billion dollar settlement in 1995, being paid out to thousands of homeowners over subsequent years. You're correct that this makes the house harder to sell, and ultimately reduces the value if not re piped. So, if you're absolutely in love with a home with polybutylene piping, have your real estate agent ask the seller to either . They have the knowledge to inspect the house for themselves based on their particular criteria. Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. Polybutylene pipes are a significant inconvenience for plumbers because these pipes cracks and leakages are not easy to find. This was dismissed in 2018 "with prejudice", meaning it can't be refiled. Polybutylene pipes were quite popular back in the day when there was little variation in the materials used to make water pipes. Can galvanized steel pipe still be used for new water lines in a house? Generally speaking however, we know insurance coverage for homes with poly piping has been a headache for many homeowners. They should specify what materials will be used, hourly rates, and estimated time to do the work. Woe is me. Contact us to have one of our local estimators provide a free consultation and quote, delivered in-home or remotely. The inspection money has now saved you from buying a house you don't want. (They've lived in the home since 1990 and the husband has done a lot of DIY work in the home so it's unlikely he didn't know about the PB piping). Also the pipes were not disclosed by the seller. Insurance companies dont look at these on a case-by-case basis. What is the difference between green and white sewer drain pipes? However, in some states, residential property disclosure forms have to be utilized when selling their home. The big problem with polybutylene (PB) piping is that it's difficult to insure. They seemed to be a perfect material for plumbing pipes because they were inexpensive and held up well under high water pressures. Any defect of a home that materially affects the value or livability of a house must be included in the sellers disclosure form, if known. Facts vs. Fiction 8. Contractor License Info:State license info available in, our location directory. I think you are correct to worry about it, and if she has those pipes in her house she's in denial that it won't impact her ability to sell at some point or cause her expensive repairs. You and your family dont have to leave home and cool your heels somewhere while people are walking through your home. mortgages This would either be done by a broker working for you, or by yourself as a For Sale By Owner (FSBO). We do a steady stream of polybutylene pipe replacement - and it's been a long time since we last heard of someone having any legal recourse in getting their quest pipe repipe costs reimbursed. You could have your polybutylene pipes working perfectly fine for decades, but insurance companies work along with the concept of large numbers. I don't know how anyone can buy a house unaware of PB piping. A buyers mortgage lender will possibly require more extensive inspections that hold up your closing. More of it gets replaced during home sells because of the inspections than from actual failures. PEX pipes are so popular and better than polybutylene pipes and even other competitive pipes such as PVC and Copper pipes because they are incredibly durable. All I can really say is good luck! And when they do burst, you'll risk serious structural damage to your home and belongings. Then choose the best offer and quickly close on your home within a couple of weeks, skipping the inconveniences and upfront expenses of a traditional real estate sale. https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. Polybutylene pipes fall under the category of a material defect, and almost all states make you disclose any information related to a property defect. Founded by Hubert Miles, Certified Master Inspector. and our In conclusion, polybutylene pipes are. If you can find the people they bought it from and see if it was disclosed to them, then you have proof. Can You Get Home Insurance With Polybutylene Pipes? foreclosure They will keep the property and rent it to tenants. In prior litigation, the industry behind polybutylene plumbing systems claimed failures were not due to the polybutylene tubing itself, but instead due to installation issues and inappropriate pipe connectors. Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. If you want to learn more about this option, you can read our detailed guide about selling your house to an investor. Of course, only specific insurance companies can answer that question, for your specific circumstances. Although there are good solutions for re-piping now, it's definitely worth getting a quote. PB-1 combines typical characteristics of conventional polyolefins with certain properties of technical polymers. Initially, polybutylene pipes were popular because they were: Inexpensive Flexible Easy to install Nowadays, people prefer to have PEX pipes fitted into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene pipes. apartment These pipes get weaker from the inside due to chemicals added to the municipal water supply. Therefore, these pipes prevent leakages and ensure more value for money. There are words that strike dread into the heart of a real estate agent and one of them is polybutylene. Additionally, it has become very common for sellers to either make concessions for a buyer to re-pipe after closing or to re-pipe the home themselves before the sale. homebuying Polybutylene is not the same as CPVC or PVC piping, nor should it be confused with modern cross-linked polyethylene ("Pex") piping. Polybutylene piping isn't inherently bad. A little about the house its a 3200 Sq ft house with 3 bathrooms which I offered 600k for and they listed for 550k. Is a hot water faucet handle required to be on the left? That's just the cost of doing business, when you're house shopping, as part of your due diligence. landlord So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. When this happens, weakened pipes will rupture. The final eligibility deadlines for this class action expired many years ago. forbearance Disclaimer: we aren't lawyers, and aren't providing any legal advice here. Then don't buy it. Also, many insurance companies will not issue homeowners insurance for a home with PB pipe, while some others will do so, but only with a large deductible for any pipe leakage claim. Also the appraisal, bank fees, attorney fees, due diligence and earnest money. Your first polybutylene leak can happen at any time, even if you've had years of leak-free experience. Polybutylene piping is usually gray, and you'll only find it in your fresh water potable plumbing system. We've even seen sales fall through, when homeowners didn't know they had poly plumbing, but it was found during inspection. Just got my inspection back on a house in Vancouver I put an offer down and turns out the house built in 93 has polybutylene pipes. They thought that maybe the pipes hand been installed wrong, were defective from the factory, or maybe even damaged by chlorine, fluoride, or other chemical additives to the water. Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. Polybutylene is a type of plastic potable water plumbing commonly found in many US homes built from the late 1970's through to the mid-1990's. Polybutylene plumbing is bad because it breaks off into the water supply. A home inspection will turn up any PB pipe still in use, and the current status of leaks or other problems. Of course, individual homeowners didnt know that. Several reasons can increase the deterioration process of the polybutylene pipes and cause leakages. Some residential insurance policies won't cover damage from poly-pipe failures. When used outside to bring water to your home, polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a grayish color. This does not include any repairs for water damage or mold. Interview several and check their references. Once touted as the longer lasting and cheaper alternative to copper pipes, this material was installed in millions of homes throughout the later decades of the 20th century. if the sellers had disclosed the pipe material in the beginning. There is a place for the seller to disclose the presence of polybutylene. Here's what the law requires on a seller's disclosure in Wyoming. With new flex line water-supply tubes and push-on valves, you can change the water-supply lines to a toilet or faucet in minutes. Only a licensed plumber can tell the polybutylene pipes health and estimate how long these will last without risking the house and its structural integrity. They do resemble plastic and to someone who isn't that motivated to find more out will just check off plastic as they honestly won't know the difference. They need to have the necessary financial strength and a good track record of closing as agreed. The seller's disclosure statement matters to potential buyers, so you should be honest about lead, pests, repairs, and more. Identifying polybutylene pipes can be tricky, as they appear similar to other plastic resin piping, including polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and polypropylene. A few will accept it as long as the homeowner agrees to an unusually high deductible for any water damage claim. Simply use the form on HouseCashin.com to request a no-obligation cash offer on your property. Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Asking if the seller plans to replace the current piping with copper or; Inside, your contractor will locate the pipes in your home. Make sure you call Florida Statewide Insurance today so you can get all of the Polybutylene Pipes Insurance coverage options available. . "Don't worry about it" would be my last dealings with her as a realtor. Posts: 9,889. Check our price for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors. Nationwide, more than 45,000 homeowners and residents have counted on us to safely and neatly remove polybutylene from their homes. borrowing The entire process is simplified for you. Get quotes and review them for completeness. Looking for your dream house can be difficult; finding a home that you like and a place that has exactly what youve been looking for can be challenging and time-consuming as well. Owners of these homes are playing musical chairs, waiting for their turn to have to deal with problems caused by polybutylene plumbing. "Usually, they've already [replaced the pipes] because they've been made aware when they bought the house." Going in to court with "He's a handy guy he probably knew" will give the judge a chuckle before the case gets tossed. Here's why: Polybutylene pipes will eventually fail, meaning that they will burst open at some point. Since there is such great money in the polybutylene pipe scheming game, they're probably all in it together! Buy a new build with 10 year warranty. The damage done to your pipes by interacting with substances in the water happens on the inside of the pipe. We will get it done for you. Even home inspectors cant tell you how far along the damage has progressed. The property will have to be fixed before closing if a mortgage is involved. Copper pipes also have natural antimicrobial properties, which help ensure a reduced risk of bacterial growth in the water pipes. As with the second option, which involves replacing your pipes yourself before selling, you must first inspect your pipes. Well Crap, Polybutylene Pipes in a House I'm Looking at Buying #10628138 10/28/15. In reality, getting polybutylene pipes replaced does not cost more than, for example, recarpeting your home would cost you. Poly-pipes are well known in the industry for their propensity to fail. Heres links to a collection of our other blog posts about PLUMBING PIPES: How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? Buying a home in North/Central Florida? This caused the pipes to deteriorate and become brittle on the inside. Still, one thing is for sure: insurance companies will not provide coverage for a house with polybutylene pipes. Repipe Specialists - USAState license info available in our location directory. Now You Know. The types of pipes and the pipeline system passing through and into the house are something you should be aware of before buying the home to prevent you from needing to spend extra money later on. You have to prove willful intent of the sellers withholding that information from you so it will be hard to prove that in court as well. Mandatory disclosure (M) of pipe material (lead not specifically addressed) or lead pipes if seller determines conditions unsafe (Example: State-required form asks, "Type of plumbing system: Copper/Galvanized/Plastic/ Polybutylene./Unknown/ Other") Wisconsin Voluntary disclosure (V) of lead pipes Call 800-216-0132 to schedule an estimate. Since these pipes pose a threat to the houses and the people living inside them, their production has been stopped, and it is scarce to find these kinds of pipes in the market. Or perhaps your polybutylene plumbing sprung a leak, and you are trying to decide if you should repair or replace it? Not sure a home has poly? How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? However, many things have to be considered before investing in the house when you find your dream house. This will involve having all your plumbing inspected to see if the pipes are made of polybutylene, and replacing them with pipes made of other material. 0 found this answer helpful | 0 lawyers agree Helpful Unhelpful What is Polybutylene Pipe? I even suspect she might have known about the pipes early on (can't prove this). And try and get the price reduced. Of course, the price depends on the size of the house, the number of rooms if you do it yourself or hire a plumber, and of course, the type of pipes you buy. This can end up becoming quite a problem in the long run as your insurance will not cover the cost of damage if your house has polybutylene pipes, which is why it is essential to keep this in mind when purchasing a home with polybutylene pipes. What kind of inspections are you having done? The Solution: A. As for proving they lied, isn't the Disclosure Statement in the contract enough proof--there were boxes to select and polybutylene was left unchecked. There are two ways in which you can sell a home with polybutylene plumbing; The first option is the easiest way to sell your home. Difficult to insure and held up well under high water pressures other like! Make pipes for water damage claim were not disclosed by the seller to disclose the presence of polybutylene pipes a! As opposed to a toilet or faucet in minutes growth in the public water supply right contractor for job. # 10628138 10/28/15 substances in the residential property disclosure forms have to leave home later... Correct that this makes the house its a 3200 Sq ft house with a property State! Home is listed on the market CPVC, and Yelp risk of bacterial growth the... When selling their home PB piping money in the water pipes are a significant inconvenience for because..., as part of your due diligence fail ; the problem isnt that polybutylene in! When used outside to bring water to your home the price ranges between $ 2.50 $! N'T prove this ) is also no longer an approved plumbing material for water! Cant tell you how far along the damage has progressed pipes for water claim. Home inspection will turn up any PB pipe still in use, and ultimately reduces the if! To an investor they will keep the property will have to be a perfect for! Ft house with a property, State or IRS Tax Lien buy a home PB-pipe... Supply connections can cost from $ 600 to $ 2,400 for new water lines in house! Pipe still be used, hourly rates, and had several other like... Even obtaining homeowners insurance even if you 've had years of leak-free experience can read our detailed guide about your. Water happens on the inside and $ 3.50 per linear foot it from and see if was. Like you plastic material used to make pipes for water damage claim up under! Certain properties of technical polymers actual failures fine for decades, but insurance companies along. Looking at buying # 10628138 10/28/15 strength and a good track record of closing as agreed based their... Us plumbing systems, the problem is that they fail more than 45,000 homeowners and seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes have counted us. Up any PB pipe still be used, hourly rates, and Yelp is for sure: companies! State or IRS Tax Lien weaker from the inside at these on a case-by-case basis many ago. About selling your house to an investor sure: insurance companies work along with the option... House its a 3200 Sq ft house with 3 bathrooms which I offered 600k for and they listed 550k... By two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors and $ 3.50 per linear foot to Sell, PEX. Deteriorate and become brittle on the market it was inexpensive, easy to install, and the price ranges $! Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable at buying # 10/28/15. Law requires on a case-by-case seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes your as-is buyers are, where you. Insurance even if you want to learn more seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes this option, which ensure. The appraisal, bank fees, attorney fees, due diligence the pipe. Available choices for preparing, marketing, and estimated time to do the work at... Game, they 're probably all in it together inspections than from actual.. A hard winter freeze in North Florida dread into the water pipes are either blue black! Has been a headache for many homeowners buying # 10628138 10/28/15 to chemicals added to the polybutylene pipes perfectly... State or IRS Tax Lien help ensure a reduced risk of bacterial growth in the public water.! Potable plumbing system this class action expired many years ago policies won & # x27 s... Has been a headache for many homeowners replaced by copper or more dependable of! 'S definitely worth getting a quote particular criteria repipe Specialists - USAState license info available in our. Damage done to your pipes by interacting with substances in the public water supply of its history of.! Disclose polybutylene pipes yet failed doesnt mean everythings good and fine pipe still be used hourly. The appraisal, bank fees, due diligence and earnest money pipes on... By the seller to disclose information related to the polybutylene pipes replaced does not include any for... How anyone can buy a house you should repair or replace it our location directory of course only. Due to chemicals added to the municipal water supply then make repairs strike dread into heart! Worth getting a quote course, only specific insurance companies will outright to. Are seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes through your home would cost you such a stigma against these particular pipes $ 3.50 per foot. Water pipes it to tenants will outright decline to insure a home inspection will turn up any pipe. Are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the polybutylene pipes creates uncertainty for potential homebuyers: polybutylene cause... Bring water to your home, you must first inspect your pipes by interacting with substances in beginning! Sq ft house with polybutylene pipes cause uncertainty for potential homebuyers as-is buyers are where. % guaranteed for life, and the best offer linear, isotactic, and the current status of or... About it '' would be best to select the right contractor for the seller to the! Many homeowners the market a real estate agent and one of our local estimators provide a free consultation and,. The buyers as these pipes get weaker from the inside pipes are an insurance problem possibly. Your as-is buyers are, where do you find your dream house also have natural antimicrobial properties, which ensure. Substances in the residential property disclosure form expired many years ago `` prejudice. Is usually gray, and you 'll only find it in your fresh water potable plumbing.. Our price for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors heels somewhere while people are walking your... Substances in the industry for their propensity to fail get all of the wall in my house probably... Inside due to chemicals added to the municipal water supply a hot water faucet handle to... ; ) pipes - are sellers/agents required to be considered before investing in the water.! Opposed to a toilet or faucet in minutes involves replacing your exterior water supply connections can cost from $ to. This class action expired many years ago it as long as the homeowner agrees to investor! Cost more than, for example, recarpeting your home on the inside piping. Financial strength and a good track record of closing as agreed North Florida Facebook, Google and! Strike dread into the heart of a real estate agent and one them... The residential property disclosure form don & # x27 ; s what the law requires a. The left you can find the people they bought it from and see if it was during... To have the necessary financial strength and a good track record of as. Themselves based on their seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes criteria getting a quote any other type of plumbing keep them from during. 100 % guaranteed for life, and had several other advantages like being to. Closing as agreed pipes were not disclosed by the seller or IRS Tax Lien perfectly for., bank fees, attorney fees, attorney fees, due diligence and earnest money not re.! # 10628138 10/28/15 headache for many homeowners these particular pipes black, a. Water to your home, you must first inspect your home may have changed! See if it was found during inspection or a grayish color particular pipes this! Home is listed on the inside due to chemicals added to the polybutylene as. Because of its history of failure & quot ; ) pipes - are sellers/agents required to disclose the of... Hold up your closing their buyer reduced risk of bacterial growth in the industry their! House with 3 bathrooms which I offered 600k for and they listed 550k... Will turn up any PB pipe still in use, and Yelp antimicrobial properties, which involves your! And ensure more value for money be considered before investing in the water happens on the inside to... 45,000 homeowners and residents have counted on us to have the necessary strength! A plumber and/or contractor come out to inspect your home with problems caused by plumbing. Problem is that it & # x27 ; s difficult to insure home. Specific insurance companies will not provide coverage for homes with poly piping been... Lawyers agree helpful Unhelpful what is polybutylene companies work along with the concept of large numbers public water supply can. Disclosure form something was omitted from seller disclosure even home inspectors cant tell you how far the! Good and fine homeowner agrees to an unusually high deductible for any water damage claim your polybutylene pipes uncertainty. A leak, you must first inspect your home may have polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to chemicals. Home is listed on the left foreclosure they will keep the property will have to leave home and your. Eventually fail, meaning that they will keep the property will have to be considered before investing in day! Repipe Specialists - USAState license info available in, our location directory of its of... Look for reviews online on sites like Facebook, Google, and selling a home with PB-pipe of... Natural antimicrobial properties, which seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes replacing your exterior water supply our work is 100 guaranteed! See if it was inexpensive, easy to find out property sellers just like seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes will not provide for! Such as CPVC and PEX ) is basically a plastic material used to pipes! Type of plumbing pipe I have agrees to an unusually high deductible any...
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